Wow!! this was stupendously dumb!!

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He uses the word "free" a lot.

In fact, there is nothing free about health care regardless of where you live.

I suspect his posse also believes there is such a thing as
free health care, free housing, free police & fire protection, free
education.

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Nobody on earth believes you can get something from nothing except the very, very young perhaps. RED HERRING!!! Fallacy number 1 in this pile of dross.

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I did find it interesting that he paraphrased Karl Marx by
stating health care is paid for in other countries by "asking those who
have the ability pay to take care of those who have the need ."

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Karl Marx was obviously wrong in declaring that this incentive system was right for all of society and all social activities. This is not an effective way to handle <i>many</i> social activities. But for <i>some</i> social activities, this <i>is</i> the right incentive structure. By invoking Karl Marx as a cold-war bogey in this context, you are attempting an ad hominem fallacy - fallacy number 2!! If Marx says the earth is round, it must be flat, because hey!! Marx said round!!

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I don't recall any government anywhere making taxes voluntary. There is no asking people to pay taxes, rather it is a mandate.

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You assume a disjunction between the will of the people and the activity of the government. Why? What happened to Lincoln's vision at Gettysburgh? Of the who, by the what, for the hunh??? You assume government is an alien force exercising an illegitimate authority. If the people collectively decide to pool resources to pay for health care - if that debate is held and that consensus is reached, then there <b>is</b> no distinction between the government and the people - and if that distinction starts to form due to institutional inertia, the people should come together to stop that from happening!!!!!!!!!!!

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The idea that Americans are not charitable is bogus. In 2001 the estimated total for uncompensated care was $35B according to a Kaiser report. Even though the report says that 85% of that total is "covered by the government" it ignores one thing:

The government doesn't have any money. It all comes from taxpayers.

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Red, scarlet, crimson herring!!! It's not a question of the charitability of Americans, but rather of an incentive system (profit) that systematically works against the goals of a universally needed shared resource (healthcare stocks).

Why do you assume a distinction between government and taxpayers? Isn't that just a symptom of lazy taxpayers who do not exercise democratic control over their own tools (i.e. the government)?

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Allowing
"free" and (mostly) unfettered access to health care regardless of
ability to pay sounds charitable to me, but not so to Michael Moore.

You would think after watching Sicko that everyone,
everywhere has better health care than we do and there is no downside
to health care in Canada, Great Britain, France or even Cuba.

If so, then why do Canadians cross the border into the U.S.
to receive treatment? Why do Brit's have to get in the queue and have
treatment for certain conditions denied? Why is it Cubans can
apparently get the best in health care yet 75% of them are illiterate,
almost no one owns land and unemployment is rampant. Cubans may have
excellent health care, yet many die each year from curable diseases for
lack of medicine.

Wonder how Sicko missed this fact?

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This has got to be one of the dumbest responses to Sicko ever. Cuba. Embargo. Heard of it?

Yes Castro is a dictator, and Cuba needs to be free of him. And how does this change the fact that the overall statistical health indicators of a poor and commercially isolated third world country even <b>approach</b> the statistical health indicators of the richest country on earth, <b>ever</b>, in the history of the human species? Can't you even contemplate the notion that this is <b>one</b> area where socialist economics has been historically <b>demonstrated</b> to be superior to capitalistic ones?

Acknowledging, of course, that this embargoed nation lacks critical resources, and people die as a result.

Why do some Canadians cross the border, but not others. Have you asked any? How on earth does the fact that some Canadians cross the border say anything about those who don't??? SLOPPY SLOPPY REASONING!!!! This tells you *nothing* about those who don't cross over.

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So is health care perfect here? Of course not. But neither is it perfect in these other countries.

In Canada, Britain, France and Cuba people still suffer,
they still die and (in some cases) are denied care. For all the good
these health care systems have done, they have not managed to banish
heart disease, cancer or other serious illness from their country.

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Candidate here for the dumbest thing ever said in the Sicko debate. They still die?????????????????????????????????????

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While the system here has its flaws, it is neither
uncharitable nor is it costly because of profiteering. Free comes with
a price. The question is, do we really want to trash the current system
in favor of a Katrina Health Plan?

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USA spends more proportionally on healthcare than other industrialized nations, while getting weaker public health results. This is just another force pushing us towards decline. The current administration's bungling of "everything Katrina " is hardly instructive. The lesson - don't do it like they did. It does not invalidate the whole concept of public healthcare when we can see so many examples of it working. (Face it, it *is* working. People are healthier and happier where it exists, all other things being equal - which rules out comparisons with Cuba, BTW.)

Hey everyone, I'm writing a term paper for my Philosophy (Logic and Critical thinking). Here is the paper's instructions:

Identifiy Moore's thesis and the major reasons he gives support of that thesis. Identify the evidence that is given in support of the major reasons/persuasion/argument. Then, criticise his arguments.

 It would be very helpful if anyone could give me some suggestions or quotes from the film that could assist me with my process. I am not copying anyones opinions, I am simply asking for ideas or areas to look at in the film. Please email me with anything you have. I will cite if neccessary.

Thank you.

Dustin Moseley. dusmoseley@yahoo.com